It doesnt end, and also you cant live there. PRX Series Kelly Corrigan Wonders Best, We had several hamsters in one cage, and they can be cannibalistic, and one morning a hamster was missing, and another hamster had a suspiciously large tummy. I love it that it gives up perfectionism, and it just says, Hey, whats possible today?. Im so sorry youre not going to like any of my answers. I do need to be reminded of this often There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. Shes not going to their wedding, shes not going to pick out wedding dresses with them. An Evening with Kelly Corrigan EVENT PAGE - Lightways Enjoy an intimate and heartfelt interview series hosted by author Kelly Corrigan. Neal Brennan and Kelly Corrigan have a conversation in NYC. Kate Bowler:Yeah, I believe you. I mean so far, knock on wood, Im getting to see my kids be much, much older than she got to see her kids be. Whos going to do this? What do you do when life doesnt fit into neat categories? The idea that any day could be this huge day, I dont know, that really gets me out of bed, you know? But I asked the doctor what the right term for me might be, and he said Survivor-in-progress, which was super annoying. Kelly Corrigan:So, my husband worked at a startup in San Francisco, which is called Medium, and its a writing platform, and as a writer, I was welcome to come, and use their office space, and its everything you think a San Francisco startup is. Michael highlights the importance of . You wrote about the end of words. I need to hear what your motto is. Go get mixed up in something. Kelly Corrigan:The magic of Tell me more is you start telling me what youre upset about, and I fall for the first thing you say, and I start solving for that. Kelly Corrigan:So, my dad died in February, and then my friend Liz, whos the mother of three kids, 8, 10, and 12 at the time, died that December. I think earn is such a good word, because youre talking about such a complicated math. Kelly Corrigan:And thats the truth. The successes of independent and feminist Marie Antoinette provoke jealousy and rivalry. Make the magic happen. May you find Christ, comfort, and companions amidst the questions! Jan, The Honor and Weight of of Being a Role Model. Stay healthy. Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. Then I wanted to get right with him, and urgently. Even the words left unsaid. I loved this episode! Kelly Corrigan:And so I didnt do it. So, I think things happen when you leave the house. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah, and theres forgiveness and acceptance kind of intertwined there that you know, youre going to forget. Thats where relationship lives is in these tiny moments, and whether you are cognizant of that and tuned into that channel all the time, or not, that is the story of a relationship. I was in a big, big rush to get in front of him, and say my apology, and be returned to a state of grace, but the fact is that his mom died. Kate Bowler:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Together, Kate and Kelly explore the phrases we cling to in order to find deeper connection and meaning during difficult times. Kate Bowler:Todays episode is brought to you by our partners, North Carolina Public Radio WUNC, the Lilly Endowment, The Issachar Fund, The John Templeton Foundation, Faith and Leadership: An Online Learning Resource, and Duke Divinity School, and of course, Beverly Abel, Jessica Richie, and Be the Change Revolutions. The space between doubt and belief is often unpopular, but the tension can be held. The reach of language can be laughable.. Theyre poking for that critical difference to hold on to, and I wanna hug em, and say, I know. So, I really appreciated the way that you framed the bigness and the smallness of it, because it has to be both. Kelly Corrigan:Well, chop-chop kid. I was wrong. What do you do when life doesnt fit into neat categories? Sometimes, were just lacking a bit of language. Kelly Corrigan:But you know, if Im jumping in with my fancy solution two and a half minutes in, I just cut you off, and then we leave each other, and I have this little high like, Ah, I just really helped her, and she walks away thinking, She didnt hear anything I said. I was so mad that I shook the cage a bit, that hamster eating its sibling. Kelly Corrigan:So, I used to go in there and write, and they have a meditation teacher twice a day at 10:00 AM and 3:00 PM, and at first I was sort of sheepish about availing myself of every single employee benefit, but sure enough, eventually I found myself sitting in there, and this guy was kind of amazing. Kate Bowler:Yeah, the indignity. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Kate Bowler:You and I are super chatty people, but you make an amazing pitch for silence, and I am all for it, because everyone always had these go-to things to say with me like, You can do it, or Youre so brave, and all the things that made me feel like I was on the other side of plexiglass. Dont worry, and she said, Well, my problem is I cant zip my dress by myself, so I thought if it was a woman, I could ask her to come in, and zip my dress, and I thought, Thats the tiny moments that are so gut-wrenching for a new widow. For Dr. White was the first person who ever told Michael he could write. Theyre poking for that critical difference to hold on to, and I wanna hug em, and say, I know. (To be fair, Ive loved all that I have listened to). But the fact is if I said, Tell me more, go on, what else, youd say the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing, and it would be like the thing behind the thing, behind the thing is where really the pain is, and if I had waited way longer, I wouldve been able to say, Oh, I understand.. Kelly Corrigan:And it wasnt my turn for his attention. You also realized there was incredible parenting magic in the phrase, Tell me more. So, what is this witchcraft you speak of? It just ends the tension because what youre saying is, I see it how you see it, and I agree with you. Inspiring and thought-provoking interviews conducted by bestselling author Kelly Corrigan. Its the only way to keep the last bit of sanity. CW: death of parent, death of friend to cancer. Kelly Corrigan:And then she died, and my dad called, and my dad had nothing but positive things to say to me my entire life, and he said, You should have gone to see your grandmother more. Ten days before I was scheduled to defend my dissertation, English Policies, Curricular Reform and Teacher Development in Multilingual, Post-colonial Djibouti, I got the call. Its going to be great. She reflects on her love and loss through ordinary moments and everyday sayings. Kate Bowler:Oh friend. Kelly Corrigan:Dont get crumbs on the baby. Theres a title. I love your style and all your guests are fascinating to listen to with so much insight and knowledge. 'Think Twice' podcast examines Michael Jackson's legacy : NPR It was the very last thing that I wrote, and you may be able to relate to this, theres always one part of a book that writes itself, at least for me, where its like, I guess Ive been thinking about this long enough, I guess Ive been living this long enough that its all kind of been subconsciously forming, and now Im just about taking dictation here, and thats the way that was. Hosted by Tom Scharpling and featuring celebrity guests, music, callers, and plenty of surprises, The Best Show streams live every Tuesday night on Twitch at 6pm PT and is available on your podcast apps the next day. As many of our listeners know, Kelly has a dear cousin, Kathy, who turns up, one way or another, in all of Kelly's books. I think part of why your book is so moving is the way that these sayings crystallize these really big truths about who we are, and also how we should love each other. We were living in Damascus, Syria, and whenever one of us asked for something Mom and Dad couldnt afford, Dad would say Allah Kareem. In Arabic, Allah means God. For what Ive just seen in the last six months, I should be different. So, I grew up with this sentence with my fathers voice in my head saying, Allah Kareem, God is generous., Cheryl:Our family motto is, Dont eat a hamster. I was wondering if you could tell me about that. And Ive talked to a couple of my girlfriends whove gotten divorced, and they say the exact same thing happens to them. When bestselling author Kelly Corrigan experienced the death of her dad and dear friend back-to-back, she couldnt shake the feeling that she wasnt living as gratefully as she wanted to. You know, I honestly think I only say Im sorry, and not, I was wrong. I think I might try it. Kelly Corrigan:I never came up with any combination that came close to the feeling. They swell, and constrict, and break, and forgive, and behold, because its like this, having a heart. Rocky is family, and we dont sell family, I replied. I was in a big, big rush to get in front of him, and say my apology, and be returned to a state of grace, but the fact is that his mom died. Mahra:Ive been singing these lines from a song by the Avett Brothers to my kids for years, and it goes like this. Im coming. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. You say something thats so weird cause I say it all the time, so when I read it I thought, Did you reach inside my brain? You adopted the phrase, Onward as a bit of a motto. Youre giving these beautiful phrases, and each of them feels like a kind of roadmap, and you start with one that really resonated deeply with me. You are in good company. Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. Hes just one of those people that you think, God, if I could get five minutes with him, Id just tell him my biggest problem, and hed just say something in seven words that would solve everything., Kelly Corrigan:So, eventually I went up to him, and I said, Im caught between these two worlds, this world where Im full of clarity and insight and gratitude, and Im seeing all the big colors of the world. Kilpy Im so sorry youre not going to like any of my answers. Onward, my dears. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. She had ovarian cancer, so she had fought it for seven years, and it was the kind of thing where I felt like I urgently wanted to deserve my life. Kelly Corrigan:So, my dad died in February, and then my friend Liz, whos the mother of three kids, 8, 10, and 12 at the time, died that December. You cant live in that. I mean, Im totally coming to see you. Okay, great. I didnt engage with her. Im sorry to ask about the hard part, but would you mind telling me what happened? Kellys guest is actress and author Constance Wu - you may know her from her roles in the breakthrough tv show Fresh Off the Boat and the blockbuster film Crazy, Rich Asians. I had to make it into a vest to remove it from my body with the tag still on it, you know? Kelly Corrigan:And he said, Thats a way to be a parent, which is to say to be there, to be available, to be within view, but not necessarily inserting yourself, because even though as your kids get older and older, it feels like theyre looking for you less and less, it is sort of a comfort to glance over, and see you there, and feel you there, and they would most certainly notice if you werent. Embed. We thought it was pretty great too . Kelly Corrigan Full Transcript - Kate Bowler Kelly Corrigan:So, she had to call someone and ask them to come over and zip her dress so she could go to the wedding. You wrote this book in a season of incredible loss. Kelly Corrigan:So, I had to wait, and then finally we had a window, and I said, I was wrong. Thats where relationship lives is in these tiny moments, and whether you are cognizant of that and tuned into that channel all the time, or not, that is the story of a relationship. Tell Me More with Kelly Corrigan | Maya Shankar | Season 5 | Episode 4 Team Everything Happens, Kate, Required fields are marked *. Team Everything Happens. Despair defies description. Sadly, our family motto was, Youll pass in a crowd if the crowds big enough. My mothers mother didnt want her to get a swelled head, and she passed that down to us, her four daughters. She lives in Philly and I live in California. Kate Bowler:Theres this other phrase, I was wrong, that has real power, and you learned that in a really intense way when your grandma died. For the Love of Conversations: Jen and Kelly on Hard and Beautiful Change And then right on the heels of that, I think, What would Liz do for this?. Touching on themes like self-belief, resilience, humility, and justice, this series normalizes the human condition and emphasizes our capacity to grow. Its a very learned thing that I have to insert the words into my mouth, and push them out deliberately, because my instinct is to solve. Kelly Corrigan:You dont always need such a plan, or an agenda, or whatever. You cant only experience deep gratitude at the toenails that you seriously wish someone else would have cut, because seriously, whos doing this around here? It was because I had been selfish, and my dad caught me. The ambiguity is quite isolating. It is a good reminder for me that I can lean into what its like now because change is always acoming. Maybe you want to borrow one of Kellys like, Its like this, but youre totally welcome to borrow my familys motto: Dont let the turkeys get you down. Its tried and true. Kareem means generous. You wrote about the end of words. You can watch this episode of Tell Me More anytime at pbs.org/kelly.Thank you also to the Lafayette Library and Learning Center. Thats the word. But first, we need you to sign in to PBS using one of the services below. Follow Kate on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. They swell, and constrict, and break, and forgive, and behold, because its like this, having a heart. Thanks for sharing your personal motto. So, Dont eat a hamster is our version of Dont jump to conclusions.. Its really wonderful to learn more about you and hear the ways youve connected with Kate and the book. Youre going to slide around, you know, youre going to deserve your life a little more some days than others. Each episode ends with Kellys shortlist of takeaways, appropriate for refrigerator doors, bulletin boards and notes to your children. Kate Bowler:I guess Ill see you soon. Kelly Corrigan:My friend Andy Lotts, who is Lizs husband, told me about it, cause hes a mom now, and so we talk mom talk. You talk about not having good language for your current state. She reflects on her love and loss through ordinary moments and everyday sayings. Tell Me More with Kelly Corrigan is a series that inspires, educates and entertains. What do we do when the labels were given arent necessarily the ones we choose for ourselves? My life doesnt exactly fit into neat categories anymore. Gratefully, Its remarkable to hear a bit of your story and Im really grateful that youve shared it with us. I love your book and your honesty as I keep questioning everything. Teri Rose wrote this loving remembrance of her son Ryland. Its so that they can identify some critical difference between you and them that makes them feel like they can exhale again. Kate Bowler:I do think people offer certainties when they think that youre proof of something that scares them, and they cant just live in the uncertainty of not knowing for a minute. Whos going to do this? Maybe Wills curious phrase, Its like this, applies here too. Kilpy Kerri, Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Kelly Corrigan:Well you know, its so funny. Onwards! I was wrong not to try to know her, and I could just see it in his face that it was like, Okay, you understand. For our weekly dose of wonder, NPR learns about glorious sounds chicken make at a very important moment in their . 00:35:25 - Annie Jean Baptiste in the Head of Product Inclusion at Google where she spends her time thinking about the products we use very day and how who's a Its all this cumulative effect of a thousand minuscule moments. I was wrong, and that is very soothing, but then that took me back to this moment where I had gone to work for United Way after college, because I was going to save the world, and I was this total do-gooder. Ill definitely have to write this one down and bring it out on a particularly overwhelming day! Kilpy The voice memos at the end of the episode are from listeners like you! Copyright 2023 Apple Inc. All rights reserved. Despair defies description. Shes not going to hold their babies.. Its these seemingly trivial moments. This is me writing a letter to Liz, and I wrote the whole thing, and I cried my eyes out the whole time I was writing it, and wiping my nose, and blowing my nose, and sitting back down, and Edwards like, You all right? And Im like, Im all right. Kelly kicks off a new series on BELIEF, delving into topics like the meaning of life, finding purpose, why faith, service and gratitude matter, and more with Dr. MIchael Murray, former Philosophy Professor and current President & CEO of the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations . Its not in my family. Team Everything Happens. Team Everything Happens, Kate, I love that youre human- that you cry as easily as I do and that you say youre not normal as often as I do (me about myself of course!). Surely, my friend, my lost and lovely friend, called for new words. Kelly Corrigan:I didnt die. This forgetting, this slide into smallness, this irritability in shame, this disorienting grief Its like this. Ask anyone who has participated in a moment of silence. Make the magic happen. Kate Bowler:Wow, and thats a big word. I had to make it into a vest to remove it from my body with the tag still on it, you know? Tomorrow, March 28, 2023 would have been his 40th birthday. I mean, people are getting colon cancer at your age all the time. I even use it at the end of lectures like, Hey, this is the end of the 19th century. Kareem means generous. In other words, it could happen to you tomorrow.. Just see who you can bump into out there. Kelly Corrigan:I sat at my dining room table, which is place I never write, and I thought, Oh my God, of course I know exactly what this is. Kelly Corrigan:So, this was about all of these people calling me to say, I heard your friend died. Can we trust our gut? By creating an account, you acknowledge that PBS may share your information with our member stations and our respective service providers, and that you have read and understand the Privacy Policy and Terms of Use. Kelly Corrigan:I know, me too. Kelly Corrigan:And he said, Thats a way to be a parent, which is to say to be there, to be available, to be within view, but not necessarily inserting yourself, because even though as your kids get older and older, it feels like theyre looking for you less and less, it is sort of a comfort to glance over, and see you there, and feel you there, and they would most certainly notice if you werent. Its probably cause of something youve been eating. Kate Bowler:Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. Onwards, but you use it so beautifully when youre talking about Lizs family and how they are now. But the fact is if I said, Tell me more, go on, what else, youd say the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing, and it would be like the thing behind the thing, behind the thing is where really the pain is, and if I had waited way longer, I wouldve been able to say, Oh, I understand.. Tell Me More with Kelly Corrigan | PBS So, thats just the question in front of all of us. Kelly Corrigan:One that Ive always liked is, Things happen when you leave the house. I think I like the sense of theres something out there that you can tap into. You cant only experience deep gratitude at the toenails that you seriously wish someone else would have cut, because seriously, whos doing this around here? I always asked her this when I wondered if I was handsome in any way. Yeah. In fact Im in the middle of reading both of your books right now. Theres meatless Mondays, and theres a kombucha bar, and theres nap pods. Yeah. Kelly Corrigan:Dont get crumbs on the baby. Theres a title. Im like, Yeah, right. Kelly shares her own go to mantra as well as two blessings from frequent Kelly Corrigan Wonders guest Kate Bowler and her co-author/friend/podcast producer Jessica Richies beautiful and extremely useful book: The Lives We Actually Have (100 Blessings for Imperfect Days). Kate Bowler:Yeah. So, maybe when life is chronic, we all need some sayings to anchor us, our very own mottos that guide us through. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. One of the hardest things Ive been wrestling with is not having any clear language for this weird place between sick and healthy, weak and strong. Im so compassionate to that thing that happens every time you tell someone that you had cancer, which is the other person trying to figure out why its not going to happen to them as fast as possible. Diana, Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Kelly Corrigan:Thats not a headline anybody wants to read. Kelly Corrigan:She cant wear half her clothes because she cant zip them by herself. Hopefully youve continued to connect with Kate and Kellys books. We can remove the first show in the list to add this one. Michael Lewis sends his thanks to Dr. Arthur White, a former history teacher at Isidore Newman School in New Orleans, Louisiana, for kicking him in class whenever hed fall asleep. Nobody who is between identities they can tolerate does, it seems to me something Ive actively struggled with and expect to go hand to hand with again, whether tomorrow or the day after. The ambiguity is quite isolating. She died this morning, and I was just sick to my stomach. Kelly Corrigan:Youre feeling like ABC, not DEF. So thats the beauty of it. That kind of belonging is transcendent, and you just feel it pop up in these little moments. Kelly Corrigan:And Im getting to walk with them way longer on their road, and I felt this sense that I could never possibly deserve that, that Im not that great a person, or a mom. Kate Bowler:You are someone who has gotten mixed up in all kinds of things, and I am so glad to know you. And she said, Kelly, Im going to try to do the Uber to this wedding, and I was wondering if you can request a woman, and I said, No you cant, but you can trust it. She was really, really into manners, and as kind of an act of gratitude, not in an uptight, British way, but as a Look at us eating a meal together, like, Nobody should eat before the last person gets down. Corrigan and her guests dig into such questions as "Is knowing more always . Kelly Corrigan:So, I just really went bananas, because on top of the shirt problem, I went downstairs to clean the kitchen, and I found everybodys bowls, and spoons, and cups, and I had that reaction that so many women have, which is, Well I guess Im the least busy. Kilpy Her teams look to her for direction, but she wanted to see what would happen if she paused more to ask them questions, and found it totally changed her approach to both her work and family life. Theres a whole world out there happening, and you can step into all kinds of things, and you dont need to know why youre leaving the house. Thank you for this. We should hold hands for a moment, as a way of marking the glory of a family dinner, and they do that. I dont know, but a whole new world of possibilities exist right now that did not exist an hour and 10 minutes ago, and I think that is so cool, and real, and exciting. Kelly Corrigan Full Transcript - Kate Bowler Everything Happens with Kate Bowler Kelly Corrigan: Tell Me More 30 00:00:00 30 Read more about this episode, and get show notes, here. You also realized there was incredible parenting magic in the phrase, Tell me more. So, what is this witchcraft you speak of? He had things to do for days, and days, and days, and eulogies to write, and people to hug, and people to thank, and accounts to close, and cars to sell, and he had work to do, both emotional and just literally logistics. Kelly shares her own "go to" mantra as well as two blessings from frequent Kelly Corrigan Wonders guest Kate Bowler and her co-author/friend/podcast producer Jessica Richie's beautiful and extremely useful book: The Lives We Actually Have (100 Blessings for Imperfect Days). Kate Bowler:Yeah. Kelly Corrigan Wonders on Apple Podcasts Kelly Corrigan:I know, me too. Kate Bowler:Thanks so much for doing this. Its a sin, its hell. Kelly Corrigan:Like, almost every time Im sure that if you just let me take over, I can make this problem go away. I really appreciate it. Enjoy an intimate and heartfelt interview series hosted by author Kelly Corrigan.MoreMore. Kelly Corrigan:Hey, thanks for having me. Kelly Corrigan:My instinct is to fix, cause I feel Im almost sure I can. Recently I coined maintain the faith, exit with grace. Thats where its at. So, its funny that that phrase really begat the whole book in a way, because I had been feeling this shame about not really earning my days here, and then Ed and I were at dinner, and we were talking about the difference between saying Im sorry, and saying I was wrong, and I was saying, God, its so much more powerful though in the humility in saying I was wrong.. I was wrong, and that is very soothing, but then that took me back to this moment where I had gone to work for United Way after college, because I was going to save the world, and I was this total do-gooder. We can remove the first video in the list to add this one. Dont misread this, my mother was a loving woman, but she passed on this legacy, this painful legacy shed been burdened with, that women should take up as little space as possible, risk as little as possible, and hide our lights lest we make fools of ourselves. Kelly Corrigan:Hearts dont idle. Corrigan and her guests meander with insight and humor toward that inevitable moment when you think, "Exactly!" The Best Show with Tom Scharpling a day ago So, its funny that that phrase really begat the whole book in a way, because I had been feeling this shame about not really earning my days here, and then Ed and I were at dinner, and we were talking about the difference between saying Im sorry, and saying I was wrong, and I was saying, God, its so much more powerful though in the humility in saying I was wrong.. Weeks later, the missing hamster crawled out from under the stove. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Kate Bowler:Wow, and thats a big word. As Teri said, He didnt have a drug problem, he had a life problem. Kelly Corrigan:Hey, thanks for having me. I think part of why your book is so moving is the way that these sayings crystallize these really big truths about who we are, and also how we should love each other. Kate, Kate Bowler:I dont think Ill like it, but I will think of you when I do it. And she said, Kelly, Im going to try to do the Uber to this wedding, and I was wondering if you can request a woman, and I said, No you cant, but you can trust it. Your mantra is fantastic and is sounds like it has served you well through the years! Im hearing all the music, Im totally tuned in to the right channel, and then just like that, I slip into those mundane irritants., Kelly Corrigan:And then I catch myself, and then I feel this sense of shame, and he said, Its like this. Kelly, this is such a good reminder that sometimes we inherit tough histories and mottos. She plans to give it to her daughter, who graduates from high school in June.. Kelly Corrigan:So, I used to go in there and write, and they have a meditation teacher twice a day at 10:00 AM and 3:00 PM, and at first I was sort of sheepish about availing myself of every single employee benefit, but sure enough, eventually I found myself sitting in there, and this guy was kind of amazing. Michael Murray on the Social Science of Faith Kelly Corrigan Wonders. A witty, insightful podcast in search of the big "Yes!" The gap between being inspired and entertained just got smaller. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Over 50 & Flourishing with Dominique Sachse. I mean, maybe I was projecting, maybe whatever he said in that moment, maybe if he had said peanut butter, and jelly, wed be talking about peanut butter and jelly, but it totally resonated for me in the way that a song lyric does where youre like, I dont know what that means exactly, but Im going to write that down, and put it in my wallet, and its interesting. I went to see her one time. Kate Bowler:Well I think part of it, and this gets to another phrase that you write about which is I dont know, but you and I, it sounds like, have given up on certainties as a way to cope with that, both having been through cancer, and also I think both realizing that people really dont like it when you say, I dont know.. Its cancer inflammatory breast cancer, with a twenty percent chance of living to five years. Kelly Corrigan:My friend Andy Lotts, who is Lizs husband, told me about it, cause hes a mom now, and so we talk mom talk. Kelly Corrigan:Thanks. So, God is generous was my dads way of promising us a better future. That sounds really right to me. I go, Oh, thank you for that bit of suggestion.. Kate Bowler:Well, the one that we sort of settled on most was, Dont let the turkeys get you down, cause we were all deeply unpopular children, but it did make me think about mottos, and how it sort of defines the season that we live in. I absolutely love that phrase. After the potency of the crime metaphor wore off, I turned to the vocabulary of religion. Maybe I dont have to be good, but I can try to be least a little better then Ive been so far., Riham:Our family motto is Allah Kareem. Kate Bowler:Those ordinary consonants and vowels that, when strung together, offer meaning and points of entry for others.